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Anastasia Beverly Hills and Rodan + Fields have matched up for an unlikely “Galentine’s Day” collaboration. Here’s what we know, and everything you need to know before you run out and purchase this bundle (Spoiler Alert: Don’t).
Photo source above: Rodan + Fields
UPDATE 2/5/2020:
ABH has seen your complaints and has issued this statement:
https://www.facebook.com/ABHcosmetics/posts/3253253401362061?__xts__[0]=68.ARB1LX9q0-TO4odf_JbbGJl9mC8q_Wb8zkSrdduZNYBdyoTDKvBlupIznIDuya7k5Qt6syTcK2LMcExX-kNsQ83ybAAWaR5Nd0p0X2ATTUUhrnK-cKytbyB60BLWRPJ7gzhg3PoNsAbagdPsdIivizax1hQAZCc-QlbbYxtufL7zfRJRDPwEAs7JcV64WppVF4ySSQewIbFrAw-ld4qbUrui8_bRFcpYfI0HhZysHyA9D-JRL6iT6Gd6SHj0WI88izeg_IRH2V551_9mtNyuvWEhFs3KLbtJwQ-ag3BY4bORKE-IB3sbflZgD1oksGS8UqCXPBGxSZbUQIc2aTQ3Qw&__tn__=-R
More on this update at the bottom of the article.
About the Companies
Anastasia Beverly Hills (ABH) is a well known, high-end makeup brand. Their cosmetics products are sold at Sephora, Ulta, Nordstrom, Macy’s, Dillards, and are very popular by consumers and makeup artists.
ABH is known especially for their eyebrow products. Anastasia Soare, ABH’s founder, created the Golden Ratio method of shaping eyebrows – a universal technique to frame anyone’s brows to fit their face.
DIPBROW, ABH’s brow pomade, is one of the most popular brow products on the market. They are a huge brand that doesn’t need a collaboration for exposure or customers.
On the other side, we have Rodan + Fields. They are a brand that makes expensive skincare. More importantly, R+F is a MLM: a multi-level marketing company.
The Anastasia Beverly Hills x Rodan + Fields Collab:
Before we get any farther, let’s talk about the actual product(s).
The collaboration features a set of ABH’s most popular brow products, including DIPBROW, an eyebrow brush (7b), a Brow Powder Duo, a Brow Wiz pencil, a Clear Brow Gel, and brow stencils.
Photo: Rodan + Field’s Instagram Story
On February 4, 2020, R+F posted the above to their Instagram Story.
Honestly, the set looks awesome – it has all the brow products you’ll ever need. The product set’s retail value is $127, and looks like a great kit by ABH.
But where does R+F come into this?
All of the products in this set are by ABH, and none of them are new or exclusive.
The “collaboration” seems to be the actual set of these products sold together at a discounted price, available exclusively to R+F distributors, with R+F’s name slapped on the packaging.
Even though none of the products are owned by R+F, it hasn’t stopped R+F distributors from talking about their “partnership” with ABH and using the makeup brand’s popularity to fuel their sales.
Side note: One of ABH’s investors, TPG Capital, also backs R+F. Is this where the connection began?
My initial reaction is that I do NOT understand why this collaboration happened in the first place. ABH is a huge, popular makeup brand (20+ million IG followers). They do NOT need exposure to R+F’s distributors. There must be a lot of money involved for this “collab” to be a good deal for the makeup brand.
Why are customers upset about this collaboration?
MLM companies have owners and administration like every other company, but instead of selling directly to customers (through a website or brick & mortar store) they sell their products through commission-based distributors.
Their distributors are not paid an hourly wage for the sales work they do on behalf of the MLM company. Instead, they are paid a small commission based on sales and recruiting other distributors into the company.
When a MLM distributor recruits another distributor into their “down-line,” the first distributor begins making commission off of the newer distributor’s sales. And off their down-line. And their down-line’s down-line. Check out the handy breakdown of business models below for a visual.
Source: Kristin Egan
Sound’s great, right? Not exactly. On average, only 1.3% of R+F’s distributors make above minimum wage. Eighty-nine percent of R+F distributors make, on average, only $2,342 per year. In the bottom tier, 61.3% of all distributors make, on average, the tiny amount of $325 (Rodan + Fields 2018). You could make more than that by hosting a 1 day yard sale.
As a distributor, you must keep R+F’s “active distributor” status by spending at least $100 per month on R+F product. Let me repeat this: You must buy product from R+F in order to get paid by R+F (I don’t know about you, but I’ve never had a boss demand that I buy from their business in order to get my paycheck).
If you keep your active distributor status for 1 whole year, you will spend at LEAST $1,200 on R+F products. Since 61.3% of distributors make under a $1,000 a year, the majority of their sales force actually loses money on this “side hustle.”
Edit: You can either spend $100/month on product, OR sell $100/month retail + $600/month of team sales to keep an active distributor status. Regardless, many distributors spend at least $100 per month on R+F products. “A Consultant becomes an “Active Consultant” and therefore has an opportunity to earn Consultant Commissions by achieving a minimum of 100 SV in sales during a Commission Period” (Source).
The FTC has determined that 99% of MLM distributors don’t make any profit from these companies, and warn people to stay away from them.
Okay, so why are people upset?
MLM companies are inherently manipulative and predatory, targeting individuals who are in need of money and promising them the ability to make “unlimited” income – when in reality they will statistically lose money in a MLM.
In order to purchase this awesome ABH bundle at a discount, you must be a customer or distributor for R+F.
While you don’t have to be recruited into the MLM to purchase, it still means that all of their current distributors are actively recruiting new distributors to the MLM, possibly using this “partnership” as an incentive.
They want to save 25% on ABH, but we don’t want people to lose hundreds or thousands of dollars joining R+F just because they will save $31.75 on a brow product kit.
Hey @RawBeautyKristi – have you seen that ABH has partnered with predatory MLM Rodan and Fields????? pic.twitter.com/eOLh83V9vs
— Peta ✨🔮🌙♒️ (@rockonsparkle) February 5, 2020
ABH is a well known and respected brand in the beauty community, and many of their loyal customers are extremely upset that they have collaborated with a MLM brand. Many are looking for alternatives to ABH products, not wanting to support the brand any longer.
@norvina1 partnering with a MLM? C'mon ABH! I thought @ABHcosmetics would be better than this. Super disappointed ☹️ MLMs are super predatory and less than 2% of R+F distributors make anything close/more than minimum wage. Why are you supporting them????? pic.twitter.com/7oELSGpaYc
— kailey @ beautybrainsblush (@bbblushblog) February 5, 2020
There are many people who have been hurt by MLMs – by losing thousands of dollars, going into debt, and losing friends or family members to the cult-like following of these companies.
All of these people refuse to support all MLM companies in any capacity, including brands that support those MLMs. Which now includes ABH.
We want to protect others from the crazy, false promises that MLMs preach. We don’t want them to spend $400-$1000 on a starter kit of overpriced skincare.
“Ohhhh but Rodan + Fields is the #1 growing skincare brand in the world!” -Some Distributor
Due to the expensive cost of R+F products and the system that encourages distributors to spend a lot of their own money on more R+F products, a LOT of the revenue of this brand comes from inside of the business system. See the business model shared previously in the article for a visual.
What is an MLM?
— norvina (@norvina) February 5, 2020
Hopefully ABH President Norvina learns quickly what an MLM is, or her brand will lose many customers and suffer tremendously.
UPDATE 2/5/2020:
Norvina has seen your complaints and responded via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/norvina1/status/1224940960808701953
We are glad that Norvina has moved this collaboration issue to the top of her priority, and has posted this non-official statement:
https://twitter.com/norvina1/status/1224942406954405888
They have already contacted R+F via email, according to Norvina in the above tweet. I’m not sure how this Anastasia Beverly Hills and Rodan + Fields partnership is “not happening” since the products have already been sold on R+F’s website.
Will they break a contract and not ship out any product? If R+F already has the physical product in their own warehouse and has paid for it, there might not be anything that ABH can do to “cancel” this partnership.
I’ll keep updating this post as Norvina and ABH put out statements about the situation.
Update 2: Here is the statement from ABH:
https://www.facebook.com/ABHcosmetics/posts/3253253401362061?__xts__[0]=68.ARB1LX9q0-TO4odf_JbbGJl9mC8q_Wb8zkSrdduZNYBdyoTDKvBlupIznIDuya7k5Qt6syTcK2LMcExX-kNsQ83ybAAWaR5Nd0p0X2ATTUUhrnK-cKytbyB60BLWRPJ7gzhg3PoNsAbagdPsdIivizax1hQAZCc-QlbbYxtufL7zfRJRDPwEAs7JcV64WppVF4ySSQewIbFrAw-ld4qbUrui8_bRFcpYfI0HhZysHyA9D-JRL6iT6Gd6SHj0WI88izeg_IRH2V551_9mtNyuvWEhFs3KLbtJwQ-ag3BY4bORKE-IB3sbflZgD1oksGS8UqCXPBGxSZbUQIc2aTQ3Qw&__tn__=-R
ABH Product Dupes
If you don’t want to support an MLM (or ABH) here are some quality product dupes for popular ABH items.
DIPBROW
Benefit Cosmetics is the next leading brow product brand, and many of their products are great alternatives to ABH’s products.
Brow Pencils (Brow Wiz and Brow Definer)
These two Benefit products are dupes for the ABH pencils.
Brow Powder
If you like a softer look, powder is great. These are great alternatives, or honestly, any brown eyeshadow can double as a brow powder. Get creative!
Liquid Lipsticks
Everyone loves ABH lipsticks for their long-lasting powder. OFRA and Maybelline have great lipsticks too.
Highlighters
OFRA has amazing highlighters, as does BECCA. Surprisingly, Physician’s Formula highlighters are amazing too.
What do you think?
Personally, I will not be purchasing this collaboration with R+F. For one, I am not a distributor nor will I ever purchase anything from a R+F distributor. Secondly, I will not purchase a product that will benefit a MLM company.
Will I stop buying from ABH entirely? We’ll see. It looks like Norvina doesn’t even know what a MLM is, and could very quickly realize that this collaboration is a mistake. If ABH doesn’t do anything like this again, I’m willing to let them learn and give them a second chance.
Share this on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/beautybrainsblush/photos/a.337950203671857/611698759630332/?type=3&av=335830060550538&eav=AfYx947tdrEmVs0nsGJbfvm_mnE7sgT2ZQsJ5DhLZ4KYebxqPgHUO5yLrnUDEV0dJNs&theater
Update: She has learned! As long as the rest of the situation is handled well, I won’t be writing off ABH.
Let me know what you think about the Anastasia Beverly Hills and Rodan + Fields collaboration down below in a comment.
Have another great product dupe? Help your fellow makeup lovers out and tell us all about it!
I am a current R+F Customer and I can purchase this limited edition. This article is false to state that you have to be a distributed to buy. I also, have not heard of Anastasia before this collaboration. So I imagine this is good exposure to this makeup product brand.
Hey Jelena!
I’ll add an edit that customers can also purchase, thanks for the info. Regardless, you must have an account with R+F in order to even see the product page.
Anastasia Beverly Hills has millions of followers (20 million on Instagram) compared to R+F’s 250k followers – I am absolutely sure this partnership is not to give ABH exposure, since ABH is a bigger company (double the net worth) with a larger following than R+F.
You don’t need an account with R and F to see a product page. The information you shared regarding the price of a business kit is incorrect and inflated. R and f consultants own their own businesses. We don’t work for R and F they are not our boss. nor do we pay them 100$ as our boss. We are independent business owners.
When clicking on the product to see more info, it redirects to the R+F login page, so yes you must be logged in – at least when it launched yesterday! The business kit price was recently changed due to a typo.
Respectfully, you do not own your own business as an MLM consultant. You are a salesperson. If you own your own business, you would be in charge of the manufacturing of the product, the business license, the adminstrative costs. You’d be the one contacting the labs with your new formulas and dealing with the legal aspects of, well, a business. If you are an independent business owner, can you show your LLC or other business documents? No, because you are a salesperson, working for R+F. The downside is that you do not earn a salary for the work you do (you would in any other traditional business model, such as those who work at high end skincare counters) which is why 99% of people lose money in this business structure. I wish you the best.
You should run far away from your PC account!
So many better products at Sephora without the hassle and believe me, your RF consultant will be out of the game soon unless shes a LV…Im not joking, save yourself the money!!!
It’s so important to get your facts right before publicly saying something.
-Anastasia herself recorded a video announcing the collaboration with R+F. She even did a product demo for us on how to use the kit.
-Brow kits are NOT just for consultants. They are ALSO available for our customers to buy.
-Consultants are NOT required to EVER buy product.
-Entry level cost to be a consultant is $45
-uplines only receive a 5% commission from product sales from the people below them
-the bulk of our pay comes from product sales.
-the numbers on the Income statement are skewed buy the LARGE amount of people who sign up as consultants for the deeper discount on the products and NEVER work their business.
-consultants are NOT REQUIRED to sell so the low income consultants are because they are not using this channel as anything more then some monthly pocket change.
-R+F was first in Department Stores and sold to Estée Lauder. They saw the future of e-commerce, we’re forward thinking and made the shift to the Network Marketing Channel.
Oh and it’s Anastasia who has the 20m followers on Insta not R+F. The post you took screenshot of even said that but in your “headline” you were insinuating it was R+F’s Insta.
– R+F is a 1.5 BILLION dollar brand and got there in just 10 short years.
-I make a GREAT paycheck talking about my brand.
Everything I am saying is available on our company website.
Hey Kim! I’ll address all of these points one by one.
-I’ve heard that there is a video, but haven’t seen it because it’s only available to those in R+F.
-Someone else has also informed me that customers can purchase, and I added that to my article already!
-If a consultant wants to be paid, they must buy/sell $100 per month. For many consultants, they spend that money on products each month to ensure they will be paid.
-Okay yes, you can join for $45 – but you don’t get any product for that price! The next tier is $395 to get some of their skincare with it. No one will buy products from someone who isn’t using them, so any “successful consultant” will purchase at least the $395 starter kit and will be encouraged to do so by their up-line.
-The compensation plan outlines 5% commission on all consultants/customers in your whole team, 10% on the level 1 people below you.
-Regardless, distributors are incentivized to recruit more consultants because you will make 5% from their purchases and sales.
-About it being skewed: I’m taking numbers right from the 2018 income disclosure statement, and disregarding the 61.3% in the bottom tier (those who join and don’t make over $1000). We are left with 38.7% of the ACTIVE consultants, let’s say. Of the people who are left, 89.9% of them do not make more than $6919 on average per year. 97.4% of the active consultants don’t make more than $14705 on average per year. That means 97% of everyone, not including anyone in the bottom tier of earnings, doesn’t even make minimum wage with R+F. https://www.rodanandfields.com/assets/us/income-disclosure-statement.pdf
-See previous
-Yes, ABH has 20 million followers on IG – I am well aware of this. R+F has 250k on IG. None of my screenshots say anything about anyone’s follower count. Which headline are you referring to?
-The reason R+F is so big and is worth so much is because the products are very expensive and so many consultants spend thousands of dollars on the products. It’s like a closed loop type of gig, where the products are being sold and purchased within the company. It’s a system that is seen a lot in many MLM companies.
-I am happy that you make a great paycheck. I wish you all the success in the world. But statistically, over 99% of people will fail at MLM/direct sales. People go into debt because of MLMs. People alienate their friends and families to join MLMs. People ruin friendships and relationships because they are so brainwashed by their MLMs.
Please listen to season 1 of “The Dream” podcast. I cannot recommend that anyone join R+F or any other MLM because of the failure rate – why would anyone logically invest money in something that has a 1% success rate? If you are succeeding, you are one of the rare ones, but it unfortunately cannot last forever. Best of luck to you, Kim!
I’m not going to go back and forth on where you are still misinterpreting the facts but I want to leave this one last point. I would encourage people to read the facts from the companies site regarding pay structure, entry point, selling requirements (which there are none for R+F), profitability, etc for themselves.
Hey Kim!
I also encourage people to read the facts about MLM companies regarding their pay structure, entry points, selling requirements, and the actual statistics provided by the companies in their income disclosure statements.
My psychology degree is going to come through here for a second, but bear with me; Have you heard of the availability heuristic? Here’s the quick wikipedia definition: “The tendency to overestimate the likelihood of events with greater “availability” in memory, which can be influenced by how recent the memories are or how unusual or emotionally charged they may be.”
When you/someone join an MLM, countless people in your upline, the founders, other consultants, etc all tell you AMAZING stories about their companies. About how they are making so much money, they have more free time, and they are so happy. Because MLMers are bombarded with messages of greatness like this, this “high and mighty MLM” idea becomes the most available idea of the MLM in your memory. (Fun fact: This is also why many people are scared of planes but not cars, even though you are much more likely to have a fatal car accident than plane accident!)
Then, the new MLMers are told that “people will disagree and send you hate, but don’t listen to them! They’re toxic!” to separate you from the truth. They tell MLMers to leave their friends or family members that disagree with their MLM. They try to remove their contact from anyone that will take the time to show them the numbers and profitability %.
Anyways, you/all MLMers are convinced that everyone can make it in an MLM, but statistically not everyone can. According to the numbers that MLMs legally must publish, VERY FEW actually make any sort of “good money” in an MLM business structure. However, because people close to you (upline, etc) tell you that THEY are making money, you still believe that you can. Every other person in the MLM think that they will be at the top level too, but it mathematically CANNOT happen.
I urge people to read the facts and not buy into the groupthink that people higher up in the MLM are feeding you.
Kailey
Basically it boils down to even if you succeed, it’s because people below you at some level will not and you need to be comfortable with that. It’s an incredibly predatory business model.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, Bobbie! I can’t imagine being okay with knowing that those below me would not have the chance to succeed.
I was in a couple of MLMs so I think I can speak to this subject. I grew up in a time when Mary Kay, Avon and Tupperware parties were the norm so when I came across an MLM a few years ago I didn’t think to question the business model. Once you sign up you’re applauded and welcomed by all these women who make you feel special. (great business model to suck in STAHM btw) You spend all this money and then told over and over that you need to “invest” in your business if you truly want to be successful, so of course here come the cc’s! The more you’re in debt the more you buy because you are sure you’re going to dig yourself out of that hole “next month”. Many will tell you “I would never use a cc!” But that’s because they are bugging people non-stop to buy products which you make VERY little profit on. You know where the money is made? You guessed it! In recruiting! There are videos, and training’s, and your upline consistently telling you you need to share the opportunity with EVERYONE. You’re made to feel like crap if you haven’t recruited enough people a month. We were told by the makeup company’s CEO that in order to be successful I should be adding 3 – 5 distributors a month! Now if that isn’t a pyramid scheme, I don’t know what is….. The products are there for show so the FTC will not shut them down. BUT the way MLMs are structured is that the only way you will make money is by recruiting other poor unsuspecting victims like you. That’s why I will no longer give one more dime of my hard earned money to ABH because it’s impossible that the CEO of the company (aka Norvina) did not know what an MLM is or at least Anastasia herself. I’ve given enough of my money to MLMs. I wanted to build an honest business and I was stupid to think I could do it through one of these companies. Boy was I wrong. Everyone was a dollar sign (ugh) and I’m so relieved to be out, and I want to let anyone I can how horrible these companies are. And the ladies are still in it will be outraged and tell us that have left that we’re sore losers. That’s because they’re brainwashed to the point of truly believing in what they say. They hire special people for their training materials and conventions that know how to speak to the distributors or consultants feel like they are bad ass women! That’s why you’re told consistently that you can only be successful if you go to these conventions so they can brainwash you even more! And don’t come for me because I was one of them! I know exactly how it works! No one could say a bad thing about my company. Which by the way is not your “business” because you’re only making the CEO rich. They’re the ones taking lavish vacations on your dime and credit card payments.
SO sorry for the long rant
Thanks for sharing your experience, Maria. I’m sorry you were hurt so bad by an MLM! Also thanks for warning others of the dangers so they can avoid the same mistakes – but remember that it is NOT YOUR fault that you failed at MLM, the entire business structure is flawed and sets you up for failure.
It is very, very important to note that the “income disclosure” is not referring to wages. That refers to gross commission revenue. Once you take out expenses, more than 99% of R+F consultants spend more than they make…by design. The qualifying minimums alone require a $1200/year commitment, on top of the average starter kit, which rounds out to nearly $1500 in commitment the first year just to remain eligible for commissions. If the rep does not sell, that money comes out of her pocket, and she only gets 5-10% back (probably nothing on discounted purchases). So once you back out these costs, and web site fees, annual fees, seminar attendee fees, travel, hotel, postage etc. from the income disclosure, you will see that R+F is like every other MLM out there…where the rep is the primary customer of the MLM, with 99% spending more than they make back.
It is mathematically impossible for any MLM down-line to be profitable as a whole, no matter which rep you use as your starting point. This post on Reddit lays out why: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/d3rpcb/geometric_growth_is_impossible_in_mlm/
Absolutely true, it is just gross revenue values. I had a paragraph about the $100/month requirement, but several MLMers corrected me that it is either $100 OR they can sell $100 retail + $600 in group sales (downline) to meet that criteria, so it now has a strike through it since I want to be accurate! In my opinion, this just shows how dependent they can become on their downlines, and explains why uplines will pressure their downlines to buy product – so they themselves don’t have to.
Not to mention TAXES. If they are lucky enough to be making a decent income, 25-40% will come out in taxes (US based estimate).
The math is solid and the statistics prove that it is extremely unlikely for any single person to succeed in an MLM. Your link about the math behind MLMs is fascinating! Someone has to be losing money lower in the pyramid for someone above them to be making money. What’s sad is that everyone at the top will keep preaching how great the system is (because it is benefitting them) while those working hard to make that money are suffering and are not turning a profit.
Thanks for sharing! I hope it helps others see the truth behind the MLM business structure.
Not sure why anyone has to hate on either brand for trying something new or trying to collaborate with other bad ass women. If you’re not into MLMs, fine! But why try to discourage other people from using R&F? They are a legit company (not a pyramid scheme. Look up the definition) and they’re not out to be “predators”. Two amazing companies working together temporarily for one week shouldn’t have people this outraged. Seems silly.
Hey Erin! I’m here to share WHY people are outraged, and explained the cause behind the drama in this article. I personally discourage people from using R+F because it is extremely expensive (most of my audience prefers low cost items) and because of the MLM business structure. I know people who have lost money and friends due to R+F, and due to the 99% failure rate I cannot support it. Wishing you the best!
Thank you for this article! I wish these women who are a part of this organization could see it for what it is. As an Aesthetician, I spend a large majority of my work working to repair the skin of women who have been duped by this company. Using products that are inappropriate and filled with inflammatory ingredients, and recommended by consultants who have zero working knowledge of the skin. There’s a huge uproar in the skin care community over this partnership. Hoping that ABH fixes this and does some damage control.
Hey Laura!
I didn’t know there was a huge uproar in the skincare community too – it’s crazy how much this situation blew up. At this point ABH can’t back out of their contract, but they did say in their statement that they won’t be pursuing MLM ever again.
Kailey
So glad Norvina saw the light and at least tried to shut things down. It makes me feel better that they won’t be pursuing future collabs which is what it sounded like what was going to happen. I’m so glad that MLMs aren’t as prevalent in Canada. The horror stories I’ve heard on r/antiMLM make me cringe. We def have a few floating around but I’ve never been accosted at Walmart, for example.
Hey Valerie,
Luckily I haven’t been approached in stores or other places, but it’s so prevalent on social media! It was great how ABH saw thousands of people giving their feedback and quickly addressed the situation, within 24 hours.
Most retail clothing stores require that you wear their clothing or clothing from another store owned by the parent company. If you don’t, you won’t keep your job & therefore not get paid.
Eli, I’ve worked for many companies that have provided me with uniforms. I’ve had one that I’ve had to purchase a uniform for, that was maybe a one time $20 cost. I know people who have worked for a few department stores, all of which want you to fit in their style of clothing, however I’ve never seen ANY that mandate that you purchase a certain retail amount from them in order to work there. Many people in MLMs try to rationalize why the companies require minimum purchase/selling amounts, but it doesn’t work because businesses should NOT work that way. Best of luck.
I’m glad that Norvina pulled the partnership. It’s sad to see the people fighting against you that claim they are business owners, when they are being fed lies by their MLM/uplines.
It’s sad to see so many people defend an MLM by saying they own their own business or it’s not a pyramid scheme. An MLM = Pyramid Scheme. And if you look at the history of the MLM the majority of them get shut down eventually – and that means all those people who “own their own business” actually lose everything. As a lover of ABH, I also won’t be supporting this, I believe big brands have a moral obligation to align themselves with companies and people they believe in, and if thats R+F then I will find new favorites elsewhere
Mish,
Thanks for sharing. While technically MLM doesn’t mean pyramid scheme, they operate the same way as pyramid schemes but also sell product, making them legal. But that doesn’t mean that the MLM structure differs much from a definition pyramid scheme. Totally get what you mean.
ABH has already stated that they will not be working with R+F after this current contract is up, and will not work with other MLMs in the future.
Kailey
Mish, to add to your points, the MLMs are playing games with their terminology. Product-based pyramid schemes are a real thing, and this exactly describes MLM. Ironically, pure naked pyramid schemes (with no product) have a higher success rate than product-based pyramid schemes, thanks to the drag the product cost puts on up-line cash flow. Think about it. If everything you spend goes to the up-line, instead of just a percentage, the up-line can turn a profit with a much smaller down-line. Jon M. Taylor did research for the FTC which shows naked pyramid schemes have a 90% loss rate, while MLMs have a 99.6% loss rate.
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00004%C2%A0/00004-57286.pdf
By joining the company at $45, you get all your products at the consultant discount price. Many people join at this level and never, never sell. They simply join for the discount. That explains why many people don’t make money doing this. They also are not required to spend over $100 every month. They simply get great skin at a great price.
Hi Kelly!
I tackled the “issue” of nonactive consultants in another comment above. Please review the statistics provided by R+F in their income disclosure:
Even if you disregard the bottom tier of the income disclosure entirely, all 61.3% of consultants that earn less than $1000, we are left with 38.7% of ACTIVE consultants. Of the people who are left, 89.9% of them do not make more than $6919 on average per year. 97.4% of the active consultants don’t make more than $14705 on average per year. That means 97% of everyone, not including anyone in the bottom tier of earnings, doesn’t even make minimum wage with R+F. https://www.rodanandfields.com/assets/us/income-disclosure-statement.pdf
Kailey
I am so happy and proud that ABH is pulling out of this. Not only are MLM’s predatory, R+F specifically has lawsuits against them due to their products being harmful. I’m a licensed esthetician and the amount of clients I’ve had come through my door whos skin had CHEMICAL BURNS from their product is insane. Their lash boost is also causing people’s lashes to fall out, their eyes to droop, and some are even losing vision. This MLM especially is awful.
I’ll be honest, I assumed the products were at least decent (for their insanely high price, they should be!). But I am unfortunately not surprised that their products can be harmful. The last time my R+F consultant friend posted about their new face masks, I cringed at how utterly DRYING they all would be due to their ingredients. Yikes!
Thanks for sharing your professional opinion about the quality of R+F products. Chemical burns is not something that anyone should deal with!
Kailey
?????? 100% agree. And the income disclosure statements prove that 1% are able to make a livable wage— and sometimes what’s considered a “livable wage” is laughable. So sad these people are brainwashed into thinking they are their own business owners. You are a pawn in a HUGE corporation where the top people are making bank and everyone else under them is making way less than their time is worth. Or nothing. Or losing money.
I’m glad you’re spreading more awareness. The tactics these people are taught to use & the way some of the uplines treat their downlines is insane. Not in all cases, I know there’s lots of super nice, amazing people who get sucked in thinking this is a “great opportunity” — but overall all this is a business model that does not work, especially for the people at the bottom.
Hey Michelle!
You’re totally right about the “livable wage” nonsense. I was including the tier of consultants that only earn $14,705 on average in the “minimum wage” category because it’s close, but truly isn’t livable in our economy today (not to mention with the cost of R+F products!).
I know too many people who were suckered in for a great opportunity and lost tons of money, as well as alienated their friends and family who they viewed as sales targets. It’s so sad!
Thanks for your comment!
Kailey
Lordy, the Huns are amazing in their copy-paste game!!! Thanks for reporting the real facts and not what R+F puts out. You’re the real MVP!
Thanks for your comment!
Thanks so much for this informative article. I appreciate facts and objective opinions!
I’m a business broker and I help business owners sell their business so they can retire.
One of the primary differences I notice between an MLM participant’s “business” and a traditional business is that a traditional business has the opportunity to build equity. If a business includes a product, brand, and reputation that continues to bring customers and revenue, and there is a system in place for the business to continue after the owner retires, the business can be sold when the owner is ready to retire. Even if the business cannot continue as an entity, there are usually assets to sell so the owner can recover some investment.
In MLM sales, there is no such equity, and there are usually no assets.
I imagine some of these salespeople retain some inventory and at retirement, they may resell those items, but for the most part, they are left with nothing to show for their hard work. I’ve seen mountains for MLM products just dumped on thrift stores, as well as, expired MLM cosmetics at flea markets.
So, not only are MLM participants working hard just to make it into the earning bracket of the pyramid model, they will not have a business they can transfer in their retirement.
It’s very sad. I’ve seen some extremely talented hard workers dump hours and hours of their time into these schemes, and with all their creativity, energy, and enthusiasm, I suspect they could have done so much better on their own.
Hey Angela!
Thanks for sharing your view on MLMs. The MLM business model (unfortunately) sets up so many people for failure, and it is very interesting to read a broker’s view and the lack of equity of MLMs.
Kailey
Are you not going to post my comment? Did I say something that’s not inline with the narrative you’re looking to put out there? It was pending … but never showed ?
Hey LynnDee!
As you can see, there are several comments posted here that do not “align with my narrative” that I have responded to accordingly – I share my opinion, and you can share yours.
It is possible that your comment was flagged as spam, which causes it to not show up in my comment feed. Since I own this website, I also have the authority to remove any comments with foul or inappropriate language, and have had to remove several comments containing such content. If either of these cases applied to your previous pending comment, that might explain why it wasn’t published.
Hope this makes sense! Kailey
Hmm just odd that this “comment” of mine was shared but not the original comment. I said absolutely nothing inappropriate or foul in my first comment. I was hoping to get your insight. But as you said you will decide what gets shared! Best of luck with your beauty business!
LynnDee, each comment is automatically put through a computerized spam checker individually. Your first comment must have been flagged, but your second comment was not. Best of luck to you as well!
No, I completely understand that you reserve the right to post (or not post) any comment you so choose. I was interested to see your thoughts on my original comment, which was absolutely not inappropriate or foul mouthed, so there should have been no reason for a flag, Best of luck on your beauty business.
What did you address in your original comment? Even just a quick overview/topic is okay, and I’ll give a brief response!
Edit: I believe that comments over a certain word count might also flag as spam – I didn’t design the spam detecting service and do not know for sure, but that is another possibility.
Gotcha, it may have been too long. So I’ll basically just list my questions..
-do you feel like RF products would be better received If sold in stores (possibly same stores as ABH)?
-you said RF is highly expensive, would you agree ABH is also considered a prestige brand ? Therefore stands to reason that they same
Folks who like good make up would like good skin care and vice versa. (so maybe not such a crazy collab)
– can you see how all of the negative generalizations about MLMs makes people not want to buy from a MLM, which in turn makes the income so low.(vicious cycle) .. if more people didn’t spew negativity these ladies may have a better chance of making a stainable income. even If the product is amazing, people
Are so programmed to hate direct sales that they won’t even consider purchasing.
-I hate to clump all MLMs together.. Just like “all
Men are bad” – “all Pitbulls are dangerous” – etc.
-is it possible that not all MLMs are bad.. but More so bad consultants ( pushy, fake, liars) is that the company’s fault or the poor behavior of the sales person?
1. That is definitely possible, though due to their cost I can see R+F struggling to be sold. However I know that many expensive skincare brands (Drunk Elephant, for example, sold at Sephora) are also expensive yet are still popular. I’m not sure!
2. Yes, I think that ABH is considered a prestige brand. What is strange about the collab is that it is 100% ABH products, there are no R+F products. It has R+F’s name on it, but they didn’t create or include any of their products; all other beauty collabs consist of two people/brands working together to create a NEW product, I’ve never seen a bundle of existing products (of only 1 of the companies) as a collab; It’s a weird combination, imo.
3. I can see why you may have that concern, but with over 1000 MLM companies in existence and thousands of consultants each (411k in R+F) there are definitely plenty of people buying the products already. Here’s a comparison: A lot of people have stopped buying cosmetics that are NOT cruelty free (CF) and/or vegan. There are negative generalizations surrounding brands who aren’t CF. But one of the biggest parent brands in beauty, Estee Lauder, owns many companies that aren’t CF and the “Estee Lauder” brand itself is not CF – yet they are still the biggest and have a revenue of 11.8 BILLION (2017). Just because a lot of people do not support MLMs doesn’t mean that there aren’t still a TON of people that do.
4. I understand issues with generalization. I try not to make overarching generalizations myself. However, the MLM business model as a whole is filled with the same issues over and over again.
5. Expanding on the last point, I definitely think that there are particular bad consultants that drag down the names of the companies they represent. But as a whole, the MLM business structure is still bad. They target vulnerable people groups (low income individuals, stay at home moms who want to earn money, people with disabilities or chronic illnesses) and promise them the ability to make insane amounts of money by joining the company. They feed lies, such as “owning your own business” (you don’t – you don’t have a business license/etc in an MLM) when you’re truly just a salesperson that is being used by the company to sell their products under the promise of unlimited income. Distributors will lie about their products in order to sell them; I know people who have had their weight-loss photos STOLEN and used by MLMs to promote scam weight loss products, I know people told that essential oils will CURE their child’s cancer, I know MLMers that use people’s insecurities (weight, or for the skincare MLMs acne, psoriasis, etc) to make them feel bad about themselves and bring them into the MLM. It is so sad.
But above all of the emotional reasons why MLMs are bad, there are the mathematical and statistical reasons why the MLM business structure will ALWAYS hurt the people at the bottom. Another commenter linked this great synopsis of the math behind the growth of MLM businesses, explaining why the people at the bottom will always lose money. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/d3rpcb/geometric_growth_is_impossible_in_mlm/
I hope this answers your questions! Wishing you the best.
Kailey
There are very few things I hate more than MLMs. I hate the emojis, the copy pastes, the sliding into my DMs, the false claims, the passive aggressive demands to buy their products, the stealing of other peoples’ photographs, the fact that the real CEOs of these huge corporations are making themselves rich on the backs of vulnerable, marginalised groups of women. Not one MLM hunbot bossbabe has ever been able to show me actual receipts of their vast profits. I have run my own small business for twenty years purely on word of mouth – I have waiting lists for my services – and I have never had to harass and guilt my friend and family to buy from me.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, Cynthia. Congrats on running your successful small business!
Thank you for putting all of the facts in one post! I was horribly disappointed at the collaboration and I’m relieved to know that I won’t have to give up my beloved DipBrow in protest 🙂 The MLM structure is so harmful and it sets up well-meaning people for failure. It makes me sad to see so many people being manipulated into losing money under the false promise of financial freedom.
Thanks for sharing, Jennifer! I know a lot of people were looking for alternatives. I still left that part of my article up, but I am so glad that I don’t have to protest ABH!
I want to ask one question to those who are claiming the reason most R&F salespeople don’t make any money is that they just signed up for the discount.
If that’s the case, why would anyone ever buy another through R&F salespeople? They’d be paying more that way.
That’s a good point, NS.
I wasn’t sure why this was big deal. I have purchased a VERY similar kit from Sephora or Ulta in the past. I still have my brow stencil and use their products. Anyone who has spent time in a make-up store knows that this kit is nothing new.
Good for all of you who love R+F…I am not a fan and not a fan of being told that I am lacking or ugly because I don’t use their products.
Yes, Lyra! The product being sold itself is all ABH, and none of the products are new, just bundled together. That’s what makes this so weird – R+F doesn’t bring anything to this “collab” than putting their name on the box.
I’m not sure of the specifics but I believe there is something going on with an investment company (TPG) who is involved with both ABH and RF. I do agree it’s strange that there is no RF product in the “special kit”! How does this benefit either company?
I agree there must be something involving TPG. I really don’t see why the partnership/collab was a good idea to begin with – hence the drama surrounding it. It’s an unfortunate situation for everyone involved!
Thanks for writing this! It’s always important to call out companies with predatory business models that rely so heavily on recruitment and ‘sales’ from their own ‘distributors’ or ‘consultants’. It’s sad to see that many of these companies prey on stay at home moms and people just desperate for a job. If there’s any common thread I’ve seen, it’s that they have no qualms lying to their own employees and public about how much money anyone really makes, or the fact that they push you into debt in order to help themselves. And then the culture is designed to keep these poor people deluded and drinking the kool aid to defend these companies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeHtYT5nlNw
majority of profit is from products sold and not off anyone on your team. generally you make 50-100 off any regimen sold. i suggest you bash beach body, mary kay, limelife, doterra, avon, young living, thrive, monat, herbalife, amway, arbonne, pampered chef, scengence, melaluca, the world financial group, the trump network, ect. the list goes on.
R+F docs are the same who created proactiv. so if you used proactiv ever then you supported them. have a great day!
Thanks for sharing the video, Danielle.
If there isn’t incentive to make money off of your team, why do teams and recruitment exist in the first place? Consultants make the same base commission 5% off of products AND their team. If your team is large and they are selling a lot, you can make a lot more from a team than you might from selling to people at retail value. But it’s important to note that if you are making money from your team, someone down lower in your team is losing money.
I do not approve of the business model of all of the other MLMs you mentioned, either. I know that Dr. Rodan & Dr. Fields created Proactiv, and I don’t have anything against the doctors behind R+F themselves – just their MLM business model. Like I’ve said to others, if consultants were all on a single level with the same % of commission, no uplines or downlines or teams, I would be okay with R+F. I would still think their products are very expensive, but it wouldn’t be multi-level-marketing anymore; It would be a traditional business model that sells directly from their own websites with a single level of consultants/affiliates.
The MLM model is not mathematically sustainable. You cannot argue against the numbers and data that prove such. Doctors Rodan and Fields are making a lot of money, while the distributors at the bottom of the system are losing money.
I hope you have a great day as well!
Kailey
Bravo to you for sharing the true facts behind this story! I am a licensed Esthetician now, but I got my start in cosmetic sales, so believe me when I say that I have seen it all. In my honest opinion, a cosmetic brand of any integrity wouldn’t have partnered with R + F to begin with. I thought that with ABH being such a successful company they would have known better than to do this. I am now very suspicious of their motives and I can’t respect the CEO for her statements that she wasn’t aware of this collaboration because I just don’t buy that. What confuses me most is why they would collab with a company like R + F when to me there is no conceivable reason why they would ever need to. ABH is an extremely popular, highly successful brand right now…they could have just re-launched those same products in this “R+F kit” with new packaging and their loyal customers would probably go nuts for it. I would with some of my own favorite products ? So to me this makes no sense. I think you’re on to something about that TPG connection. I mean, that’s the common denominator here.
On a personal note, about a year ago a friend of mine who is a hair stylist started working for an MLM called It Works. Now, I’m not going to say anything negative about the company itself simply because I don’t know enough about them, but what I will say is that my level-headed, rational thinking friend joined this company and suddenly started behaving like a psychotic stalker!! This girl hounded me and harassed me and ALL of our friends over, and over and over again to join this company with her. I believe it was around $50 to become a representative. She knew I couldn’t afford to invest in this but it never stopped her from harassing me about it. She eventually got two or three more of our friends to join her “group” of saleswomen, and then they started hounding me too! I told them I didn’t know anyone who would buy their products, so what do they do? They start offering to throw sales parties for ME at MY house so that I could recruit more reps and sell products. I thought to myself, if you’re as successful as you say you are at this then why do you need me so badly?? The whole thing got out of control real quick. By the end this girl had everyone at the salon she worked at pimping out It works, including the salon’s owner. Meanwhile this girl and my other friends managed to piss off and alienate all of our friends both in person and particularly on facebook where they were non-stop posting a barrage of it works ads. Eventually all of these girls quit working for the company, including the friend that started it all. Now keep in mind that she was telling everyone that she was making money hand over fist with this company- thousands of dollars each month. So, why would anyone quit such a lucrative career that they were supposedly highly successful at? Well, because she wasn’t really doing that well. It was all part of the facade…the illusion of success and wealth that every MLM portrays.
Oh, and by the way, these girls even flew to conferences all over the country for this MLM. They paid for these trips out of their own pockets.
Well, sorry this post is so long! I just so happen to be quite passionate about this subject! But again, thanks for sharing and great article!
Hey Kim!
Thanks for sharing. I understand being worried about ABH’s intentions due to this situation. It’s hard to believe that someone didn’t know what was happening. I believe that Norvina herself didn’t know, but SOMEONE high up had to know that they were partnering with an MLM.
I’m sorry about your friend. I have a similar story about a friend who was sucked into ItWorks. Unfortunately the changes you described in your friend are far too common among all MLMs.
Wishing you the best,
Kailey
Anastasia knew, I have a video of her announcing the collaboration and she is very excited about it. let me know if you would like to see it.
I am aware of that Anastasia was in a video about the collaboration, yet I am not sure if she understood that R+F is a MLM company. That is where the confusion comes in.
Kailey
100% truth…I am a consultant but I don’t have a team. Don’t really want one! However, I sell the products that seriously work to customers who also love them! No team at all and I make enough extra money a month to pay for 2 family vacations a year. That is huge for my family. Not predatory at all! On my own terms. Also we don’t have to buy $100 a month to be commissionable! You can sell retail products to customers as well.
Hey Cortney,
It’s great that you personally are making some money, but 99% of distributors in MLMs do not. The predatory nature comes from MLMs targeting people who are low income, have chronic disabilities, etc and promise them they can make a ton of money – which, is against the MLM’s policies. In case you aren’t aware, claiming that R+F commissions paid for your vacations is actually against R+F Policies and Procedures (section 6d).
At the end of the day, the business model can not mathematically sustain itself. The distributors at the bottom have to lose money in order for people higher up to make money.
Wish you the best,
Kailey
I just need to say how impressed I am that you’re responding with compassion and facts. These MLM huns are nuts. Even in the face of them not making $$$ it’s shocking how they’ll defend it because they feel they “built” it. That’s part of the lie Rodan and Fields dr’s feed them: this is YOUR business, YOU built it, YOU profit!!! Nah. They built it – sure – but they don’t get the profits. How can someone not see that they’d earn more money working at McDonalds than doing this?
My personal anger comes from our church getting torn apart by this. The lead pastor’s wife started selling the idea of buying your own business/being a #bossbabe (gross) to congregants who couldn’t afford it (I live in a very low income area). IMHO she abused her position and power and its destroyed lives. One disabled/retired woman couldn’t afford her rent anymore and had to move in with her sister – thanks R+F!
I don’t know how someone doesn’t see the flag that they get $$ from bringing PEOPLE in, not selling PRODUCTS. Huge flag. I also love how they talk about expanding but as far as I know, the products in their current form can’t go to Europe b/c of their more stringent rules against ingredients that are known carcinogens (which R&F products are full of).
Anyway, you’re way more patient and kind than I am so kudos to you. I also cheered out loud when one poster said she makes enough to pay for vacations and you cited that’s against R&F policies – omg, lol. Thanks for fighting the good fight.
Hey Sara!
Thanks for the kind words. It is quite funny how defensive of MLMs they are – if it was a legitimate, healthy, beneficial, and successful business structure, they wouldn’t have to defend anything. They only defend it because they want to refute the seeds of truth they know are there (that, or brainwashing – did you see Cas’ comment comparing MLMs to cults? Crazy stuff)! At the end of the day, I TRULY don’t hate the people who are MLM distributors, I hate the MLM business structure. The MLM distributors are victims of the lies and false promises that MLM companies (and their uplines) spew, and I feel sorry that they are brainwashed into believing that everyone can become rich from MLMs. I’m trying to help these distributors see the truth, look at the mathematics and facts – yet they think I am attacking them. Someday they’ll all get it 🙂
I cannot imagine what I would do if my church was torn apart by MLMs. I am SO sorry you (and those targeted individuals) went through that. It was absolutely an abuse of authority, and proves the predatory nature of MLMs. Unfortunately I’ve heard similar stories about a lot of churches in rural areas, where everyone is recruited into the same MLM – and then they run out of people to recruit/sell to, and everyone loses a lot of money. It’s really sad.
The note about R+F products being full of carcinogens and not being able to be sold in Europe – YIKES. I haven’t looked into that, but that would really negate the “it’s the best skincare ever!” claims. A few estheticians commented about how much it hurts people’s skin, so I can see some truth in that.
Honestly almost every MLMer in these comments are going against R+F policy by talking about how much they make. I didn’t point it out for most, but since vacations was the example in the policy guidelines, I thought it would be nice to let her know.
Thanks for taking the time to comment!
Kailey
Not sure were my comment disappeared to. Came back just to check, and what do you know it vanished.?. We talk about MLM companies but we currently live in a world were we have companies with huge social media following who essentially don’t have to do any marketing because their follower, who buy and consume their products do it for free. But we have an issue with a company that pay people to wash their face and tell people about it. Amazing world we live in.
Hi, “Mercy Me” and “POST ME” and “Hello” –
Give it a rest, I don’t work 24/7. Comments are run through an automated spam checker, and this post is set to manual approval due to the inappropriate language in some of the responses. Submitting a second comment only an HOUR after your first comment, and a third comment 5 minutes later, is very impatient of you.
In reference to your first comment’s assumption that the collaboration wasn’t talked about among the top executives: I assume it was brushed off as a minor collaboration because no new products were produced, only existing products were bundled together. I bet a lot of second-level people dealt with it and the top level signed off on it.
In reference to another point in your 1st comment: Comparing car salesmen to MLM sellers is, frankly, ridiculous. Cars salesmen at dealerships receive a salary (or hourly wage) with typical job benefits such as healthcare, 401k, paid vacation and sick days, etc. MLMers do not get those benefits. Even more importantly – Cars salespeople do NOT recruit other cars salespeople into the dealership or make money off of people
From this comment: Followers do not consume products for free. If they want the product they go out and purchase it. I do not understand what you are saying. People have an issue with “a company that pay people to wash their face and tell people about it” BECAUSE of the MLM business structure. If your precious R+F paid a commission with absolutely no recruiting/downlines/uplines/teams, just a single level of consultants earning commission on purchases, I’d be much more okay with the business model.
From your third comment that reads “You get paid for that body charm add you got posted? Shop the feed? ????” I assume you meant boxy charm – Google ads are tailored to the reader’s (your) cookies and data, so Google determines what ads you see and not me. And yes, absolutely. You can read about how I make money on my website in my terms and conditions linked at the top of every single post. However, I do NOT have to purchase a starter kit to make money, I do not have to sell a certain amount per month to make money, and most importantly I do NOT recruit anyone into anything at all, so do not twist this into saying that I’m doing the same thing as MLMers.
In the end, remember that I calmly voiced my opinion on the website that I own, and you are the one that came and commented negative things to me three times within an hour and a half. I wish you the best, and also hope you are more patient next time!
You seen this? It’s a harassment flowchart that some high-status R+F upline huns gave to their downline a while back.
https://i.redd.it/1lcsodwck6c41.jpg
It’s really eye-opening. R+F really is just a scam just like all MLMs are! I do not support MLMs in any way. If ABH is starting to do anything with those greedy scammers, I will not ever purchase their products–period.
It’s disgusting how many women get caught up in these endless-chain recruitment scams.
Please don’t let the huns pressure you to withdraw from this fight. They’re literally brainwashed, and they see you the same way that fundagelical Christians see atheists and for the exact same reasons. So they’ll respond to you in the same exact way: treating you like a tribal enemy they must crush and brutally, viciously attack till you’re silenced one way or the other. See, you’re threatening their already precarious recruitment possibilities–and that can’t be allowed to stand. Be aware that huns are trained to pull out the stops both by the religion they usually belong to (fundagelicalism) and the MLM upline themselves. These two indoctrination streams twine together and make something really monstrous happen inside huns’ heads. They won’t realize what assholes they’re being till they finally deconvert from one or the other cults.
Souce: I was a fundagelical cultist, deconverted, then almost got recruited to Amway. What saved me? Seeing the same exact talking points in Amway that I’d seen in my religion! And huns sound exactly like the Ambots recruiting me, and like the fundagelicals I worshiped alongside for years before meeting the Ambots.
Indoctrinations are powerful things. Just be aware: to someone in a tribe, you’re either a tribemate, an enemy to destroy, or a resource to be mined. Once huns categorize you as an enemy, they will go balls out to destroy you and shut you up. JFC, MLMs are sick. I really hope they’re declared illegal soon–I doubt they will be, but gosh, one can hope.
Hey Cas,
That flowchart is crazy to me. I cannot imagine cold-messaging people in order to make sales. That’s truly why so many people dislike MLMers, because they constantly message and try to sell you products even when you’ve said no.
Your story, essentially being involved in a cult, deconverting, and then seeing cult-like patterns in Amway is very eye opening (and disturbing, if I’m being honest – to think that some MLMs operate similarly to cults. Wow!). Thank you so much for sharing your experience, I really hope it will help others in this thread!
Don’t worry, I’m not backing down 🙂 The funny part to me is that I presented my opinion on a website that I own. I didn’t call out any people, I didn’t say I hate the MLMers themselves, nor did I sent it to anyone and say that their MLM is bad. They found my site on their own (or shared it amongst their MLM groups, maybe?) and decided to defend their MLM’s flawed business structure. I sincerely hope that every MLMer on this thread will look into the true statistics and math behind MLMs and see that it is impossible to win, and that the 99% will lose in order for the top 1% to make money.
Thanks again for sharing Cas! Hope you are doing well now.
Kailey
Ohh Chile, hunty, such an angry bunch. I had to take a sip of water. My, my, my. Talk about on edge. Such offense and tension in the air. Thick skin honey, thick skin. I’m not exactly sure what part of the comment was negative?♀️. And the last post was not confusing which is why you commented back. It contained typos but you were smart enough to figure it out. You are right this is your website and you have the right to post whatever you want no matter how ridiculous other people may think it is. And not all car salesman are salaried. Last thing, some people aren’t into MLMs for money, some people do it for community, some people have other sources of income. And some people have careers were they receive performance bonuses and guess who does the work, not the person getting the bonus. They set the goals and manage productivity. It sounds like you and a few more people have had negative experiences and that is unfortunate. Any whoo, keep calm and blog on. ??
“MERCY ME, POST ME, HELLO”
Hey again!
The negativity I am referring to in your previous submitted comment was the “Girl bye,” “When I remove my make up I don’t want to scare anybody off,” “Just stop it,” etc. Your obviously condescending tone in this new comment just proves that you are intending to belittle me and want to get under my skin – showing much more about your personality and character than anyone else’s.
Your last comment wasn’t what confused me – it was your sentence, “we currently live in a world were we have companies with huge social media following who essentially don’t have to do any marketing because their follower, who buy and consume their products do it for free.”
Are you referring to the “body charm” typo? I did honestly want to make sure I was assuming correctly – I am sure ads for body charms (body jewelry, maybe?) exist and are run through Google’s ad program. It never hurts to double check!
I did more research, and it turns out not all cars salespeople are salaried – my bad! The ones I know personally are paid for their hourly work on top of commissions. Regardless, they still do not recruit other salespeople into the dealership and they still receive benefits. Plus, I found out that many commission-only based dealerships will pay the salesperson at least minimum wage if their commissions for the month do not meet the minimum wage threshold – which I find really awesome. Very different than the MLM structure.
A lot of people have had negative experiences in various MLMs. Many people lose money and go into debt, trying to make the MLM business structure work for them. No matter how you twist it, the FTC has determined that 99% of distributors lose money in MLM companies. If you’re good with math, I highly suggest you read through this mathematical explanation of how the lowest tier of distributors must lose money in order for the higher levels to make money.
I have absolutely nothing against you. I do not have anything against MLM distributors as people. I am against the MLM business structure. However, you are being patronizing with your words – yet one day the MLM structure will break down. It is not infinite, the MLM structure will run out of additional customers to recruit, and it will fail. I hope you see the truth behind MLMs before then so you can get out before chaos ensues.
Best of luck, Kailey
I did not read through the other comments SO I am not sure if this was said. A few things that someone would not know if they were not a RF consultant. You can join this business for $45.00 and NEVER purchase a product if that is what you choose to do. Those is the facts. A big reason why most of our consultants do actually purchase the product if because if we use skincare (which most of us do) we get a nice discount. Also, It upsetting that we all get lumped together. I can’t sit there and tell you there are not some bad people in this business (just like most businesses). That’s like saying all Jewish people are cheap. I AM JEWISH, So i am allowed to say that our loud. Many of us did not join this business for a car or a 6 figure income. Some of us just sell products and do not build a team. Because nothing is mandatory of expected. So the people that are saying oh its minimum wage, maybe that’s all they set out to do. I have a full time job where i make 6 figures. So for me this is just extra side money for groceries. And lastly, many people also join this business and become a consultant just to buy their own products for a discount. THEY NEVER wanted to sell or built a team. so it technically looks like they lost money and made no money. I am happy to answer any questions about how our company actually works. i am an open book. Please let;s just all be kind!!!!! you do not know what someone else is going through and why they do what they do. SO don’t ever buy from them or join them or even block them on social media. But just leave them alone. If someone in this business did something to you I am terribly sorry.
Hi Marni,
I addressed multiple of these concerns in other comments, so I’ll give you a quick recap here:
-Yes you can join for $45, but that doesn’t include any product. Since you are very unlikely to succeed if you aren’t showing the products you are trying to sell, it is highly encouraged to purchase at least the $395 starter kit so you get some products to try and show off.
-I never said that every person who is a distributor for an MLM is bad. YOU, as a person, are not an MLM. MLM business structure is bad, and what I am against. I am not against YOU as a person. Does that makes sense? There are good and bad MLM distributors (like every other group of people, right?) but regardless of the people who join the companies, the business structure itself sets 99% of distributors up for failure. See the math here: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/d3rpcb/geometric_growth_is_impossible_in_mlm/
-I did the math regarding consultants who don’t sell in response to another comment, disregarding everyone in the bottom tier of R+F income disclosure – this gets rid of every consultant that joins and doesn’t make any money, plus some consultants that are trying to make money but are making less than $1000. Here is the truth:
Even if you disregard the bottom tier of the income disclosure entirely, all 61.3% of consultants that earn less than $1000, we are left with 38.7% of ACTIVE consultants. Of the people who are left, 89.9% of them do not make more than $6919 on average per year. 97.4% of the active consultants don’t make more than $14705 on average per year. That means 97% of everyone, not including anyone in the bottom tier of earnings, doesn’t even make minimum wage with R+F. https://www.rodanandfields.com/assets/us/income-disclosure-statement.pdf
It’s important to note that this is gross commission revenue, and doesn’t include any expenses or net pay after taxes.
I do believe I am being kind – I am calmly addressing the angry comments that are being sent to me and explaining why, with supportive facts, I do not support the MLM business structure. I do not hate the people who are MLM distributors, I just want to protect them from losing money in the flawed structure in which the FTC has determined 99% of people lose money.
Hope this clears things up!
Kailey
Thank you for this article. I’ve watched R+F destroy relationships and families and I am so glad they are not partnering with ABH. I appreciate your thoroughness and informative writing.
Hi Kelly!
So sorry that you’ve dealt with the negative outcome of this MLM firsthand. Glad you enjoyed my article!
I just visited your site for the first time and got sucked into all of these comments! I love this article and your responses. The psychology part about why MLMers are the way they are is on point! You gained a new follower!
Thanks Erin! Glad you enjoyed the commentary. 🙂
Kailey, I never read blogs or comment on posts but I am so impressed with the way you handle the MLMers’ negativity so graciously. Some were really condescending and even I would be irritated. I really enjoyed reading your overall post. I hope you have a nice day and you know that you have readers who appreciate you.
Thank you so much for your kind words, Crystal! I appreciate my readers 🙂
Have a great day!
Kailey
I have truly enjoyed reading the comments on this article. I am thoroughly impressed with the way you have handled responses with grace and facts! I am curious about MONAT; do you know much about this company? Right now it seems to be all the rage with many of my college girlfriends. They are constantly posting that it is not an MLM (although it seems like it is). Would love to educate myself more on this subject so that I am able to speak as to why I won’t support the products that they push.
Hey Natalie! Thanks so much 🙂
Monat is an MLM. I definitely would avoid it I were you – there are several lawsuits against Monat from tons of people losing their hair and having chemical burns after using Monat shampoo. I would never use their product after hearing the horror stories about them!
Here is an overview on the lawsuits against Monat: https://www.mlmnewsreport.com/monat-lawsuits/
If you browse the anti-mlm subreddit and other similar communities you can read stories from people who have dealt with horrible reactions to their products. Distributors often claim that your hair isn’t really falling out, it’s just “detoxing” which is crap because hair can’t detox.
So glad you are able to stand up to pushy friends and explain why you won’t support their MLM! Good luck!
Thank you so much for such an objective review! I am so disheartened at how many people have fallen for the MLM scheme.
I have been waiting a looooong while to write this and have done much research since my unfortunate experience. “Names have been changed to protect the guilty” and all that.
I bought R&F’s Lash Boost for my daughter within the past few years from a pastor’s wife recommendations (and for the sake of protecting the guilty, it was HER endorsement that sold me, although I did not buy it directly from her), and she is currently a “Level V Premier Executive” with the company (which now I realize most likely puts her in minimum wage category) & is constantly posting about how awesome the products and “her business” & paychecks & sisterhood are.
Do you want to puke now or wait til I finish?
My daughter wanted longer, fuller lashes, and she had seen on social media how “amazing” (now i know are likely total lies, but, whatever) people’s lashes were with this product.
Anyway, after ONE use, she developed a SIGNIFICANT purplish discoloration on both her upper and lower lids.
Now that I’ve done a little or lot of reading, rather than trusting someone with a BS (actually, its “two Master’s” like she constantly likes to say- nevermind that they’re concurrent and not remotely dissimilar, but BS actually stands for bulls–t with what she purports to know vs. what she actually does about skincare), how in the world anyone would actually buy anything from this seriously-overpriced-but-not-even-Neutrogena-level skincare company is beyond me.
And the worst part is that part of the sell was her faith. I trusted HER because of that.
That’s the part that upsets me off the most. “I’m a pastor’s wife and look at how great my paycheck is and how awesome these products are and what a #bossbabe I am and I LOVE GOD!”
There is a special place in hell (I’m guessing Circle VIII- Fraud, or IV- Greed- maybe R&F took their levels from Dante?) for people like this.
But my only solace is that, after all of this, she (fairly) recently posted a “makeup-free-mask promotion” picture, and, wouldn’t you know, all of that eyeliner she usually wears is covering up her bizarrely purple eyelids.
In the words of Vernon Dursley, “JUSTICE.” It comes in this life. and. or. the next.
Woahh – purple discoloration? That sounds terrible! I’m sorry your daughter dealt with that. I know a lot of people who have purchased an empty mascara tube like this one, and fill it with castor oil, using on their lashes at night to promote growth. I can’t vouch for it’s effectiveness, but I know a lot of people swear by it! That might be a better alternative for your daughter 🙂
It makes me so sad to hear how personal relationships and trust is ruined due to MLMs – especially in the church. Using a position of authority to gain sales from people who trust you is manipulative and wrong. 🙁